Effraeti's RP

One Woman, Two Timelines, Two Destinies.

Blog Azeroth (Unofficial) Shared Topic: Some Thoughts on New Dungeons

This is not an “official” Shared Topic, but I thought this seed idea posted by Oathblade was interesting enough that it got me thinking:

With a new year its a good time to reflect on the past and things that might of been overlooked.

We’re actually in the place we were before with the introduction of the ICC 5 mans and the End Time both serving the same goals. How did Blizzard handle it differently? How did the community?

A few thoughts:
Its become expected to look at videos and groups abuse those who don’t before venturing into the new content. Did Blizzard tune the encounters expecting that? Should they?
Last rollout the dungeons were introduced with an air similar to the Troll dungeons ‘this will be hard but worth it’. This rollout was far more ‘go and have fun’ did that change how people approached the design and going into the fights?

So I felt the urge to post my thoughts on this subject.  🙂

Some Thoughts on New Dungeons

When I started playing WoW, the Dungeon Finder and the ICC dungeons were already in place.  So I cannot make much comment on the initial reaction to their release.  However, I have seen the changes between Wrath of the Lich King and Cataclysm – the simplification, the dumbing-down, as a lot of people call it.  And at the same time the skills and stats and talents were homogenized and simplified, they also made the mechanics of mobs and bosses far more deadly.

At the beginning of Cataclysm, I remember the rude awakening that was tiny heals, slow casting, no mana… and people getting one-shot.  It was the most frustrating thing ever for someone who makes her WoW-living as a healer and considers it her job to keep people alive.

It was a lot of flailing to no avail.  😛

Mechanics were unforgiving, and getting into a dungeon with someone who did not know it led to the immediate reaction of “OMG, we are going to die…”

As the expansion progressed, gear got better and healing became a little easier (and Shaman were buffed cuz their heals were severely lacking).

Then, came the Troll Heroics, and the cycle started all over again.  The Troll Heroics brought back the one-shots and the frustration and the dungeon kicks to anyone who did not immediately measure up.  Even friend and guild groups brought frustration.  But at least that time around, Effy’s heals could keep up – as long as people did not stand in things and/or get one-shot.

The Hour of Twilight dungeons were a huge surprise.

The first day of release (granted, I was in my new guild with guildies who were over-geared for these new dungeons) brought an easy glide through the new content.  Very few deaths greeted us and raider common sense was enough to get through.  There are a few boss fights that require a specific tactic (standing behind the Blood Elf assassin in Hour of Twilight comes to mind) and trash is easily AoE-able and mostly CC-able if it is really needed.  To top it off, the new dungeons are shorter than many of the dungeons this expansion.

So Heroic dungeons have become less grindy and more Dungeon Finder friendly.

I find myself torn on my opinion of this.

Most times, I enjoy a challenge, though I prefer to do such things with a group of people I trust.  I like dungeoning with guildies and with friends.  I like learning the tactics of a dungeon/encounter.  In fact, at the beginning of Cata, we had a tendency to jump in, CC what we could and learn as we went.  If we could not figure out a way to overcome an encounter, then we would refer to a video guide.  And that is part of why I am not interested in beta testing.  I do not do betas for patches, nor did I do them for Cata.  I enjoy the experience and the story and the learning.  I enjoy the newness.

However, I will be the first to admit there are some times, some nights, when all I want to do is something that I can almost auto-pilot through.  After a long day at work, a quick, issue-free dungeon is a comfort.  It does not really take the grind out of it, though.  I still feel like I should be doing my seven dungeons every week on all my 85’s, to the point where I have not really wanted to do any the last few weeks.  Luckily, Effy only needed one dungeon to cap her VP this week – the rest came through raiding.

The more I think about it, the more I realize what a great task it is to please everyone – or even one person – all the time.  I have my moods – wanting to raid, wanting to PvP, wanting to do my own thing, wanting to level a wee toon.

But I do have an idea for a small compromise, between raiders and not raiders.  It came to me in a conversation during one of our raid breaks.  We somehow started talking about missing stats that really made a difference.  The example that started the conversation was the difference between using a sword, an axe or a mace.  Weapon speed used to really mean something.  Tanks used to have defense.  Spell Penetration used to be more than just a PvP stat.  Hit and expertise used to mean more – they used to be necessary stats for tanks.

Balancing talents and stats is more of a conversation that comes up in regards to raiding – something beginning to lack in raiding, in my opinion.

When I first joined Undying Resolution, one of my fondest parts of the interview was discussing stats, talents and glyphs.  We discussed my reasoning behind many of them.  We may not have agreed on all of them, but the friendly debate of our reasoning was something I learned from.

But what if there were two levels of item stats?  Basic stats that would come from dungeon and the Raid Finder gear and more complex stats that would come from raiding gear.  Dungeons and the Raid Finder would only have the primary stats – Strength, Intellect, Agility, Stamina and maybe the simpler secondary stats like Spirit, Hit and Haste.  More complex stats could be reserved for just raid-level gear – Defense, Expertise, Spell Penetration, Shield Block and (damn, what was the other one??).

I think this would even help me personally – between the characters I play and those I raid with.  My raiders I could dig deeper into and really focus on them.  My non-raiders I could just plug-and-play, to put it simply.

I am very interested in the thoughts of others on this.  We already know that those who regularly progression raid and those who do not have a tendency to view the game differently.  What if we were to separate the stats for these two  groups of WoW players?  That way non-raiders could focus more on the pieces of the game they enjoy – achievements, dailies, crafting, etc. – and raiders could go back to out squeezing every possible point of DPS/HPS and the theory-crafting we enjoy.

~ Effy

EDIT – Posting the link on Blog Azeroth brought to my attention that this Shared Topic is now Official.  😉



  1. Great thoughts Effy! I think that’s a really interesting idea about the 2 tiers of stats.

    • Yah, it seems that everyone is always either complaining that raids are too difficult for casuals or that casuals get overly catered to and it makes raids less challenging for hardcore raiders. It just seems separating them a lil more would benefit everyone.

      ~ Effy

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